I was having a few beers with a friend not too long ago and the subject of religion came up. Usually it happens when Lisa (not her real name, as she may be one of the three people that actually read these meanderings), aware of my heathen ways, asks me if I believe in God yet. I ask her if the Bible’s writers ever thought their tales would be taken seriously (“Dude, love the parting of the
Then we’re done because we know we’re not going to convince the other that we’re right and they’re wrong (a “live and let live” approach that would probably work pretty well globally: Anyone know where the existential suggestion box is?).
But this time, God and religion came up in a more roundabout way, and as such the conversation went on longer than it should. Still, I remember much of it (I was still on my first beer when it started, and had not finished the second when it was done) and I thought it worth recounting. Why? Because this is my blog, not yours. Any more questions?
First, a bit of background. Lisa was diagnosed with breast cancer a few months ago. Thank goodness (or God, depending on your point of view), it was very slow growing and treatment was successful. When the news is that good, I’ll be happy to attribute God, science, cells that fought bravely to slow cancer’s advance, whatever.
Then I asked her about her old high school friend, a guy she had gotten in touch with and found she had some feelings for (her marriage has been rocky for many years and she’s stuck with it, though I am not going into particulars because I don’t want to get all Dr. Phil, even though there are probably many people who consider that pompous, overbearing, holier-than-thou jerk some sort of god).
But, she said, there would no further attempts to contact him. And this is where our conversation began.
Me: “Why not?”
Lisa: “It was a wake-up call.”
“What was a wake-up call.”
“Just … things. Circumstances. My life has changed now. It’s time to go down a different path.”
“Wait, what things? Are you talking about your cancer?”
“Look, I’m … maybe-“
“Cancer is a wake-up call? Are you serious?”
“Yes. It make me see things in a whole new light.”
“A wake-up call from who?”
“You’re not going to like the answer.”
“OK, God. Cancer was a wake-up call from God. That’s what you think.”
“I know you don’t see it that way, but we believe differently. Everything happens for a reason and yes, God is trying to tell me something. It was a wake-up call.”
“See, this is the kind of thing I have a problem with. When I ask for a wake-up call, I expect that at some ungodly hour the phone will ring and I will pick it up and get out of bed. I do not expect someone to come into my room and inflict a potentially mortal wound.”
“Come on, that’s not what I mean at all. It was just a message. God wants me to think differently, to analyze the things in my life. Cancer was the way he deemed the best way. Who am I to question His wisdom?”
“Oh, so then God wanted to send a message to everyone in
“That is so ridiculous. See, you just don’t get it. You’ve never taken the time to think about it yourself. Who knows why those things happen? I don’t know, but I do know there is a reason for them. And I’m not going to pretend I have those answers. But what I do have is faith. What do you have?”
“Here’s the thing. I’m not saying God doesn’t exist. I’m saying I don’t know. There are so many incredible things in this world that I would like to think there is some design, that there is something behind it. God, a force, whatever. What I have a problem with is your God.”
Lisa: “My God?”
Me: “Your God.”
“What is your problem with God?”
“The problem is how you see him. Essentially, I can live an exemplary life, be kind to my fellow man, never be accused of a felony, raise an amazing family and be a pillar of the community. Hundreds of people attend my memorial service to proclaim how loving and generous I am. Meanwhile, a serial killer responsible for 12 deaths is about to be executed and he tells the attending pastor that he has accepted Jesus into his heart, and he sure seems to be sincere, what with the needle about to slip into his vein. Now, which one of us is going to hell?”
“That is not up to me to decide.”
“OK, fair enough. But according to your beliefs, who is going to hell?”
“My beliefs? Because my beliefs don’t really line up with the church.”
“How about your religion then? According to your religion, who is going to hell?”
“You are. But that’s-“
“And there is one of my biggest problems. Not so much with God, but religion. According to Christians, not only am I going to hell despite trying to live a good life. So are Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi, atheists, etc. Hell is like the mall at Christmas, seriously overcrowded. Heaven sounds like an exclusive country club where only certain people get a tee time. I just can’t buy that.”
“I’m not sure I can either. Which is why I don’t think God separates people like that. He’s not so black and white. I believe that when you die, God gives you another chance. He asks, ‘Do you believe that Jesus is my son, whom I sent down from heaven to you?’ Then it’s up to you to make the choice.”
“So when you die, God let’s you have a do-over.”
“Yes, in simple terms.”
“And if you say no?”
“You’re going to hell.”
“So I’m dead, chatting with God, he introduces me to his son, then says if you still don’t believe, I’m going to that place down there with the fires and screaming and eternal damnation. Or I can say, ‘You know, God, I see the light, mind if I join you in the clouds and the fluff and the softness?’ Given those terms, wouldn’t hell be empty?”
“Maybe. Look, you make it sound ridiculous, and it isn’t. Besides, it’s not about heaven and hell. It’s about having faith, knowing that there is so much more than this. It encourages you to live a better life. Look at you, you’ve led an exemplary life, right? Why? What’s it going to do in the long run? You’re just going to die. What’s the point? How can you live with that over your head?”
“I want to live an exemplary life for my son, for the people in my life. And I don’t think I’m different from 99 percent of the people on this planet. I think we all want to do good. Somewhere along the way as we evolved, we got this ‘help fellow man’ thing that keeps us chugging along without killing everyone. Yet.”
“So what’s the payoff? Why do you do it?”
“Simply because it’s the right thing to do.”
“That’s fine, but for you it all comes to an end when you die. That’s so depressing. I know there’s something else. That takes a lot of the fear away. Life is much more enriching. I’d hate to be in a world where there was no faith, where there was no God. That’s a life not worth living.”
“Even though my life is apparently not worth living, it’s still worth a beer, right? Want to get the next round?”
“Of course.”
1 comment:
I think I get it now. Did the grandpa kill the boy's abusive father and dump the body in the lake?
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